Assessing UN and state practice on casualty recording: Interview with Elizabeth Minor and Serena Olgiati

In this podcast, Elizabeth Minor and Serena Olgiati discuss the reports recently published by the Every Casualty programme at Oxford Research Group and AOAV. Together, these two reports (available to download below) provide a comprehensive overview of casualty recording as currently practiced by UN and state-led initiatives.

&lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>I’m here with Elizabeth Minor of Every Casualty Program at Oxford Research Group and Serena Olgiati of Action on Armed Violence. They’re the authors of two new reports released today on casualty recording efforts by states and the United Nations. Elizabeth, can you tell us about the impetus behind the publication of these reports?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Sure, so casualty recording is receiving increased international attention as a practice, especially around the protection of civilians in armed conflicts. So states and U.N. actors are increasingly recognizing it, for example, the statements to Security Council opened debates on the protection of civilians and the importance of this practice.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>And also the U.N. Secretary General has mentioned in his recent reports that casualty recording is highly important to the protection of civilians. And he’s also recommended that the U.N. establish a common system to record civilian casualties. So knowing the true cost of armed violence is essential to addressing the rights and needs of victims is being increasingly recognized, but there is a gap in casualty recording practice worldwide.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Oxford Research Group and Action on Armed Violence are working to investigate the different available practices in casualty recording along with guidance for their implementation. So, as part of this and in the context of an increased demand for information about casualty recording practice from states and others including the Group of Friends and Protection of Civilians who in 2012 asked for more information about state and U.N. practice in casualty recording, we’re doing this research to address this knowledge gap and building on previous work that we’ve done.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>Your report focused on the U.N. and casualty recording, were your findings positive? Do you think the U.N. is doing enough to record casualties?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>So part of our research was to investigate the case study of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan’s Human Rights Unit’s casualty recording of civilians. Which show clearly that when the U.N. does systematically record the direct civilian casualties of conflict and acts effectively on this information, this can help save lives.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>So UNAMA’s evidence-based advocacy based on their casualty recording is part of a picture where conflict parties have done more to protect civilians in conflict in Afghanistan. However, we found that casualty recording is not a widespread practice in the U.N., and nor is it yet recognized as a core activity to civilian protection.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>So the other part of our research looked at opinions of using casualty information on the practice of casualty recording in different offices and agencies in Geneva and New York and we found that though this is considered very useful, this kind of information, that either no information available or it’s not of a good quality or it’s available inconsistently, so the practice definitely needs to be improved.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>And why is it so important for the United Nations specifically to be recording casualties of conflict?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i> I think because as an impartial actor in conflict zones, when the United Nations does casualty recording well, it can have a real impact on civilian lives. So we found that there’s a range of benefits to U.N. activities to better casualty recording across humanitarian, human rights and development objectives.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Including improved conflict analysis, humanitarian response by better understanding areas of risk and need, mine action, and survivor’s assistantance programming, and the promotion of accountability and advocacy with conflict parties and others to better protect civilians.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>Now, Serena your research focused on state practice. Should states only be recording casualties in times of conflict or should they be recording casualties all the time?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Well, yes our report of AOAV has looked both at casualty recording in conflict situations, but also in situations of armed violence more broadly. What we’ve seen is that obviously, violence does not start when the conflict starts and it does not end when the conflict ends. So understanding how different types of violence are inter-connected is definitely a key aspect of being able to address and respond to the problem.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>So if you think that about only one in ten casualties around the world are due to conflict situations, it shows you that states definitely should look at casualty recording more broadly than just in conflict situations. And in part they are doing that. For example, an example that we have seen in Mindanao in the Philippines, where a lot of the states have been looking, or the casualty recording there, have been looking at human rights violations specifically. So there is not much information about violence committed by civilian armed groups. All though when you talk with people that’s from them one of the major causes of violence. So, it’s definitely a key aspect to record more than just conflict.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>And did you find that states were concerned with transparency? Was this information that they were willing to share publicly or were they interested in keeping it private?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>I think it’s definitely one of the most challenging areas in terms of casualty recording- the understanding of transparency. Not only the numbers that they are producing but also how they are producing these numbers? And I think what we have seen is that in cases where causality recording are not transparent both in how they are recording the numbers and the numbers itself, it can easily be manipulated for political reasons and also it undermines the credibility of the casualty recorders because no one has, can really understand how these numbers have been recorded.So, it’s definitely a major challenge to address. &lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>And within your research did you find any examples of states that are doing this well?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Yes, obviously all of them have…it’s difficult to value how well things are being done. But there is an example, for example in Colombia where there is a victim unit that is recording all the victims of conflict since ’85 and this is a major task. At the moment you can find the numbers online for all the victims of conflict and there are over 6 million victims.&lt;/i>&lt;/small> &lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>This includes displaced people, it includes homicide victims and also their families and partners, so it’s quite a broad database that you can see there and I think it’s one of the best examples we have around. What needs to be said though is that that’s the first step. So what we’ll actually show how good and how helpful this data is, is the way they are then using this data and that’s obviously are not the question now.The capacity that the state has then to respond to 6 million victims and how they will do it is probably what will then really make the difference. &lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>So what would you say would be your key recommendation coming from this report, Serena?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>One I think, first of that casualty recording is happening and it’s happening both in areas of conflict and in areas affected by other types of armed violence. And we’ve seen a great number of benefits out of casualty recording being to support the right of victims or to understand better violence or also to prevent and inform actions to reduce it. So it is happening. What is needed is a more political commitment to support casualty recorders and to ensure that there is enough capacity then to actually analyze and use the data that is produced. &lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>And Elizabeth what would be your key recommendations?&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>Well, the U.N. is currently undertaking an initiative called Rights Up Front which includes improving the coordination of information within the U.N. on monitoring violations and it’s giving consideration to recording civilian casualty. So really our recommendation is that this opportunity shouldn’t be missed to make casualty recording the core activity to protect civilians by the U.N.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;i>So the U.N. should develop standards and models for implementation of recording in different situations using expertise right from across the U.N. and from civil society and states and they should also insure that casualty recording is well resourced and politically supported in order to do this effectively.&lt;/i>&lt;/small>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;small>&lt;b>&lt;i>Well, thank you both so much. Please check out the reports from AOAV and Oxford Research Group. They are both available online at aoav.org.uk at everycasualty.org.&lt;/i>&lt;/b>&lt;/small> &lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;b>ENDS&lt;/b>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;a class=”” href=”http://oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/sites/default/files/ORG-UN-and-CR_1.pdf”>Download Every Casualty’s report as a PDF.&lt;br />&lt;/a>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;a class=”” href=”http://aoav.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/AOAV-Counting-the-Cost-2014.pdf”>Download AOAV’s report as a PDF.&lt;/a>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;/p> &lt;p>&lt;a class=”” href=”http://oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/sites/default/files/u11/AOAV%2BORG%20joint%20summary%20on%20CR.pdf”>Download the joint summary as a PDF.&lt;/a>&lt;/p>

Assessing UN and state practice on casualty recording: Interview with Elizabeth Minor and Serena Olgiati

Counting the Cost

The UN and casualty recording

Casualty recording: assessing state and UN practices

Share this article

Follow us

On The Record

Counting the Cost

The UN and casualty recording

Casualty recording: assessing state and UN practices

Share this article

Casualty Recorders Network members’ evidence to the OHCHR study

Not just a number: Croatia’s national experience of casualty recording

Follow us

On The Record

Thank you!